Thanks for this post. It's the story of my life. I had 4 bicuspids extracted during 8 years of orthodontic treatment (age 10 to 18). I also had 4 wisdom teeth removed after the ortho work was finished. Fortunately, I haven't experienced cognitive or neurological decline (knock on wood); just lots of physical aches and pains.
I remember going to the orthodontist office every month or so with a payment cheque from my mom. It felt like paying someone to torture me. I had sleepless nights with excruciating pain whenever the braces were tightened. I also had to wear a headgear at one point.
Whenever I see kids wearing braces, I cringe and hope they don't end up like me. Apparently, dentists don't extract bicuspids anymore; they use palatal expanders instead.
I thought about sueing the orthodontist. But he was following the "standard of care" at the time in the 1980s, so he legally did nothing wrong. My mom did what she thought was best for me (to give me a beautiful smile). It's taken a lot of TMJ work, therapy, and forgiveness to make it this far with decent health.
Yes completely understand about this 'standard of care' protection that they have.
When we put this stuff beyond doubt at some points years from now dentists will need to answer for what they did. But probably not in a courtroom as there is probably not much that can be done against them.
Rather I like thinking of it more like an approach that is taken with war criminals. But instead of courtrooms we will use social media to name and shame.
When orthodontists start to see their picture and quotes that they used to ruin other people's lives going viral on social media... they will feel very embarrassed.
They will live the rest of their days knowing that they fucked up lots of people and everyone will look at them like they are dirtbags.
We are one day going to get very creative about how we deliver revenge. And we will figure out how to scale it via social media so that many people are creating this kind of content.
People used to tell me.. "Ken... you shouldn't be driven or guided by revenge."
And i'd be kind of embarrassed and agree that probably i shouldn't.
Now i say fuck that. I'm driven by revenge and i love it.
And i'm not bad at it. Plus i'm going to get better.
A lot of these dentists and orthos that damaged people... will realize that we are still in the very early stages of the wrath i plan to unleash on them.
I have 2 baby molars in my mouth as a 32 year old. The adult teeth below them never developed. The dentist wants me to remove them as they are bigger than what the adult teeth would be in that space. I am so conflicted
I would never rush to remove teeth unless they're really painful or problematic. Even if they're baby teeth.
have you started wearing a mouthguard yet? I would first try a mouthguard for a few months to see if biomechanics can do the job for you. As you have nothing to lose trying.
At about 5 the dentists advised my parents that I 'desperately' needed extensive dental work to prevent an overbite, crooked teeth, etc. Fortunately, my parents didn't have enough money!
But I inherited bad teeth from them. Both had dentures from their early 20s, and I have needed a lot of dental work through the years. But I brush vigorously and eat healthy, so still have my teeth at 68. But my last molar on my bottom right has been extracted a few days ago because of an abscess, and I am miserable. Can't eat my normal foods. My question is: will the absence of teeth on one side of the jaw cause a "structural collapse"? If the top teeth are just hanging there with nothing to do...? Is there anything I can do?
removing a big tooth like a molar will cause the others to shift around.
Its difficult to say how much of a negative impact it will have as there are probably many factors involved.
But in general i think u can put composite (dental cement) on one of your molars to give it a high flat contact (ie. contact only on that tooth wtih a small gap b/w front teeth).
What does "a small gap b/w front teeth" mean? Are you referring to a space between the central incisors? Or teeth in front of remaining molars? Or what? Also, how is she to achieve the required spacing? Or does she explain it to her dentist and then he does it?
re: "a small gap b/w front teeth" mean? Are you referring to a space between the central incisors?
>> yes 2-4mm between central incisors
Also, how is she to achieve the required spacing?
>> by putting composite on one of her back molars
Or does she explain it to her dentist and then he does it?
>> yes u cant do this yourself. U need to find a willing dentist and explain to them. It's pretty much same concept as dentists who put 'turbos' on their patients to lift the bite
I had a failed root canal removed and not only did the dentist remove a massive piece of flesh but he moved and damaged the tooth behind and that then had to have a root canal. I am scared of losing this damaged tooth too because then I won’t have any molars on the top left (apart from a wisdom tooth which hasn’t come through) I still have pain where the tooth was and it’s a couple of years ago. I have had cognitive decline since around the time the tooth was removed but I also had amalgam fillings removed and they messed up on that too so maybe that.
Ken i was just wondering what you think about me having the damaged tooth capped? I was supposed to have had it done a year ago but keep putting it off as I still have pain from the extraction site next to the said tooth. The dentist said it will not last as long if I don’t have it done
I've had my wisdom teeth extracted. Is there any way to reverse the effects or is the injury and damage just something I have to accept as permanent now?
Are you a dentist Amanda? What is your concern with covering the tooth with cement?
Meanwhile i have an entire community of hundreds of people that were screwed over by dentists. Needless extractions that triggered massive health issues, braces/ortho without understanding the skeletal consequences, etc.
I made the decision a long time ago.. i trust my own judgement over any dentist. And i've done very well ever since.
So yeah... i dont give a sh*t what dentists think or say. I'm sorry.. that's just how it is.
Hey, I would like to order 4 of your mouth pieces, 2 large and 2 small (for each member of my fam) but can't figure out how to order more than one size at a time on your website. ?
Thank you. I've noticed with my mother that her skeleton seems to be collapsing in on itself. She had dental work done with all her top teeth removed and an upper that is screwed in. This was about 3 years ago, and she's 90. I'm glad I found your writings because it seems to explain a lot of what I'm seeing with her, and feeling in myself (my own dental issues).
I hope more people find you and at least think it through. I appreciate you and your writing.
Yes if it hurts and there's nothing that can be done to stop it.. then remove it. But wear a mouthguard or something to prevent things from caving in after.
for sure its a bit detrimental but it doesnt curse you to structural collapse.
I had mine extracted in college and im pretty sure it triggered muscle tightness in my neck and back for the next 2 decades... but it is not as if i collapsed.
That didnt happen till 2014 when a dentist drilled my teeth.
I now wonder if similar tightness in my right side may have been triggered by my wisdom teeth removal. About 2 years later, and for many of the last 16 years since, I have had a recurrent pain from my neck, to my lower back and hip, and into my right foot. I thought it was repetitive stress from computer work, but now I wonder if changes in my jawline created the conditions for this.
Thanks for this post. It's the story of my life. I had 4 bicuspids extracted during 8 years of orthodontic treatment (age 10 to 18). I also had 4 wisdom teeth removed after the ortho work was finished. Fortunately, I haven't experienced cognitive or neurological decline (knock on wood); just lots of physical aches and pains.
I remember going to the orthodontist office every month or so with a payment cheque from my mom. It felt like paying someone to torture me. I had sleepless nights with excruciating pain whenever the braces were tightened. I also had to wear a headgear at one point.
Whenever I see kids wearing braces, I cringe and hope they don't end up like me. Apparently, dentists don't extract bicuspids anymore; they use palatal expanders instead.
I thought about sueing the orthodontist. But he was following the "standard of care" at the time in the 1980s, so he legally did nothing wrong. My mom did what she thought was best for me (to give me a beautiful smile). It's taken a lot of TMJ work, therapy, and forgiveness to make it this far with decent health.
Thanks for sharing that.
Yes completely understand about this 'standard of care' protection that they have.
When we put this stuff beyond doubt at some points years from now dentists will need to answer for what they did. But probably not in a courtroom as there is probably not much that can be done against them.
Rather I like thinking of it more like an approach that is taken with war criminals. But instead of courtrooms we will use social media to name and shame.
When orthodontists start to see their picture and quotes that they used to ruin other people's lives going viral on social media... they will feel very embarrassed.
They will live the rest of their days knowing that they fucked up lots of people and everyone will look at them like they are dirtbags.
We are one day going to get very creative about how we deliver revenge. And we will figure out how to scale it via social media so that many people are creating this kind of content.
People used to tell me.. "Ken... you shouldn't be driven or guided by revenge."
And i'd be kind of embarrassed and agree that probably i shouldn't.
Now i say fuck that. I'm driven by revenge and i love it.
And i'm not bad at it. Plus i'm going to get better.
A lot of these dentists and orthos that damaged people... will realize that we are still in the very early stages of the wrath i plan to unleash on them.
First we educate the masses.
Then we fucking attack.
Both organizations and specific individuals.
They absolutely still do in the uk :( and it’s not even limited to taking premolars
I experienced the same when i got my braces. I would love to know how well things are going for you now with mouth guard 🙏🏽
Thanks Ken 👍
I have 2 baby molars in my mouth as a 32 year old. The adult teeth below them never developed. The dentist wants me to remove them as they are bigger than what the adult teeth would be in that space. I am so conflicted
I would never rush to remove teeth unless they're really painful or problematic. Even if they're baby teeth.
have you started wearing a mouthguard yet? I would first try a mouthguard for a few months to see if biomechanics can do the job for you. As you have nothing to lose trying.
At about 5 the dentists advised my parents that I 'desperately' needed extensive dental work to prevent an overbite, crooked teeth, etc. Fortunately, my parents didn't have enough money!
But I inherited bad teeth from them. Both had dentures from their early 20s, and I have needed a lot of dental work through the years. But I brush vigorously and eat healthy, so still have my teeth at 68. But my last molar on my bottom right has been extracted a few days ago because of an abscess, and I am miserable. Can't eat my normal foods. My question is: will the absence of teeth on one side of the jaw cause a "structural collapse"? If the top teeth are just hanging there with nothing to do...? Is there anything I can do?
removing a big tooth like a molar will cause the others to shift around.
Its difficult to say how much of a negative impact it will have as there are probably many factors involved.
But in general i think u can put composite (dental cement) on one of your molars to give it a high flat contact (ie. contact only on that tooth wtih a small gap b/w front teeth).
This should start to stretch things out
What does "a small gap b/w front teeth" mean? Are you referring to a space between the central incisors? Or teeth in front of remaining molars? Or what? Also, how is she to achieve the required spacing? Or does she explain it to her dentist and then he does it?
re: "a small gap b/w front teeth" mean? Are you referring to a space between the central incisors?
>> yes 2-4mm between central incisors
Also, how is she to achieve the required spacing?
>> by putting composite on one of her back molars
Or does she explain it to her dentist and then he does it?
>> yes u cant do this yourself. U need to find a willing dentist and explain to them. It's pretty much same concept as dentists who put 'turbos' on their patients to lift the bite
Yes I totally agree 👍.
I had a failed root canal removed and not only did the dentist remove a massive piece of flesh but he moved and damaged the tooth behind and that then had to have a root canal. I am scared of losing this damaged tooth too because then I won’t have any molars on the top left (apart from a wisdom tooth which hasn’t come through) I still have pain where the tooth was and it’s a couple of years ago. I have had cognitive decline since around the time the tooth was removed but I also had amalgam fillings removed and they messed up on that too so maybe that.
Ken i was just wondering what you think about me having the damaged tooth capped? I was supposed to have had it done a year ago but keep putting it off as I still have pain from the extraction site next to the said tooth. The dentist said it will not last as long if I don’t have it done
yes i think capping is a good idea. Im not a dentist but id think you can also potentially just cover it with dental cement.
The shape of the tooth is not that important in my view
I had a failed root canal tooth removed years ago, never imagined my cognitive decline could be related. Great article.
I've had my wisdom teeth extracted. Is there any way to reverse the effects or is the injury and damage just something I have to accept as permanent now?
What about extractions for removal of baby teeth when the adult teeth have come in and yet the baby teeth still have not fallen out yet?
i prefer trying to use biomechanics to encourage the body to do this on its own..
but if that doesnt work.. then yes i guess its necessary
Thank you. What would be considered biomechanics?
biomechanicis would be wearing a mouthguard or adding flat composite to one of the other teeth so that the 2 rules are upheld:
1- increase vertical
2- no locking occlusion
Then allowing the natural inflation of the skull to encourage the baby teeth to fall out on their own
You’re not even a dentist. How can you advise someone to just cover a tooth with cement?
Are you a dentist Amanda? What is your concern with covering the tooth with cement?
Meanwhile i have an entire community of hundreds of people that were screwed over by dentists. Needless extractions that triggered massive health issues, braces/ortho without understanding the skeletal consequences, etc.
I made the decision a long time ago.. i trust my own judgement over any dentist. And i've done very well ever since.
So yeah... i dont give a sh*t what dentists think or say. I'm sorry.. that's just how it is.
Hey, I would like to order 4 of your mouth pieces, 2 large and 2 small (for each member of my fam) but can't figure out how to order more than one size at a time on your website. ?
What can a person with full dentures do? Wear them at night with a mouth guard?
im not too familiar with dentures... but yes i think u can try to wear them with a mouthguard.
One issue u will have is that the dentures may not fit well as the guard starts to stretch things
Thank you. I've noticed with my mother that her skeleton seems to be collapsing in on itself. She had dental work done with all her top teeth removed and an upper that is screwed in. This was about 3 years ago, and she's 90. I'm glad I found your writings because it seems to explain a lot of what I'm seeing with her, and feeling in myself (my own dental issues).
I hope more people find you and at least think it through. I appreciate you and your writing.
Thank you Nettie.
Yes i think we're going to remove a lot of human suffering in the coming years
could be...
Yes if it hurts and there's nothing that can be done to stop it.. then remove it. But wear a mouthguard or something to prevent things from caving in after.
ok, it should be stretching things back out. Also try the polymorph clipons as a daytime appliance.
for sure its a bit detrimental but it doesnt curse you to structural collapse.
I had mine extracted in college and im pretty sure it triggered muscle tightness in my neck and back for the next 2 decades... but it is not as if i collapsed.
That didnt happen till 2014 when a dentist drilled my teeth.
I now wonder if similar tightness in my right side may have been triggered by my wisdom teeth removal. About 2 years later, and for many of the last 16 years since, I have had a recurrent pain from my neck, to my lower back and hip, and into my right foot. I thought it was repetitive stress from computer work, but now I wonder if changes in my jawline created the conditions for this.
this type of full body pain is for sure biomechanical compensation.
zero chance in my view that its from repetetive stress from computer work alone.
I'm 47 and i work from 8am - almost 11pm daily on a computer the whole time and am a very fast typer. No issues at all.